Declassification?
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- dr-spangle
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Declassification?
Seeing recent events regarding declassification of old documents and plans in shireroth has made me think, why haven't we got some MCS declassification going on?
Here are the points I propose, please feel very free to comment and suggest modifications, but we are a society that is supposed to be for the benefit of our members
Some ideas that mount to a declassification system:
Basic ideas:
1)Finished Votes is opened up for public view (not posting) so the public can look back on previous claims and their votes and see what went wrong (or right) in different cases.
2)All topics in Administrative Discussion which have not had a reply in the past 6 months are moved to a public to view but not for posting "Administrative Discussion Archive" section, so the public can see our previous decisions and how/why we made them, projects we considered but didn't get the proper backing for, etc.
More "volatile" idea:
3)Administrative Council is opened up for public view, we vote on behalf of the public, and we vote with good reasons presumably, therefore it can do no harm to open it up for viewing by the public.
I'm fully in support of all 3 but recognise some people might have a problem with part 3, in which case we must find out who and why.
Let the discussion... Commence! *tumbleweed*
Here are the points I propose, please feel very free to comment and suggest modifications, but we are a society that is supposed to be for the benefit of our members
Some ideas that mount to a declassification system:
Basic ideas:
1)Finished Votes is opened up for public view (not posting) so the public can look back on previous claims and their votes and see what went wrong (or right) in different cases.
2)All topics in Administrative Discussion which have not had a reply in the past 6 months are moved to a public to view but not for posting "Administrative Discussion Archive" section, so the public can see our previous decisions and how/why we made them, projects we considered but didn't get the proper backing for, etc.
More "volatile" idea:
3)Administrative Council is opened up for public view, we vote on behalf of the public, and we vote with good reasons presumably, therefore it can do no harm to open it up for viewing by the public.
I'm fully in support of all 3 but recognise some people might have a problem with part 3, in which case we must find out who and why.
Let the discussion... Commence! *tumbleweed*
- chrimigules
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Re: Declassification?
I support points 1, 2 and 3 at the most, 1 and 2 at the least.
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Re: Declassification?
The MCS should have NO secret forums or post. ALL posts should be public the second they are made. ALL votes should be public the second they are cast.
Erik Metzler
Perennial Citizen of Shireroth
And Often the Kaiser...
- dr-spangle
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Re: Declassification?
I'm happy with Spangle's original proposal. I see no problem with the staff having a forum to be able to discuss things immediately pertinent to the running of the organisation without having threads protesting the discussion starting up in the general forums. But it doesn't need to stay secret forever.
Andreas
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
"He showed up three or four years ago and accidentally took over the micronational world by being way more competent and enthusiastic than everyone else. Now he sort of rules us all, but it's a benevolent sort of thing, as far as we know."
~Scott Alexander
- dr-spangle
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Re: Declassification?
The Council has always been private for as long as I've been involved in micronations, and that is how I believe it should stand. The system works perfectly well with the Council members having the access they earnt when being employed there. However, I wouldn't be against the locked Finished Votes archive to be open to the public (and any finished discussions, as long as they would benefit the public being open)...
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Re: Declassification?
As I said in #micronations: " I see no reason the MCS should keep secrets. This is just people trying to hold onto their power and self importance. "
Erik Metzler
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And Often the Kaiser...
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Re: Declassification?
I'm wondering how, in any way, this is the MCS "keeping secrets". Results of voting are announced, as are any changes relating to the MCS (and all major changes have their own public discussions anyway). The Council has been specially chosen to vote on claims and so should have a place where they can do that without any outside interference or pressure. The rest of the community has the initial threads in the Claims boards to air their views, and those are always taken into account when needs be.
If you want to talk about "opening" up the Council, you might as well go on to say it should be entirely open and that every member nation has a vote on claims, which would take a lot of time and be pointless.
I don't really think that many people are actually bothered about the Council being closed. I know when I had no position in the Council, I thought it was a good idea to have all the workings separate from the public. I also find it strange that you're fighting for the Council to be open, as you have viewing access there (and posting access in Discussion) anyway. I could understand it if you were a nation's leader annoyed that we'd denied a claim of yours, but I can't for this.
However, I love seeing constructive criticism, so can you give some decent (rather than unfounded "self-importance" comments) reasons why you believe it should be open, rather than just saying that it should be?
As a final point, if anyone has any questions about what has happened with a certain claim, or whatever, there's nothing saying they cannot ask a Council member how they voted, etc. It should be (and is) the Council members' own disgretion whether they want to release their voting information; similar to the old secret ballot in most elections...
If you want to talk about "opening" up the Council, you might as well go on to say it should be entirely open and that every member nation has a vote on claims, which would take a lot of time and be pointless.
I don't really think that many people are actually bothered about the Council being closed. I know when I had no position in the Council, I thought it was a good idea to have all the workings separate from the public. I also find it strange that you're fighting for the Council to be open, as you have viewing access there (and posting access in Discussion) anyway. I could understand it if you were a nation's leader annoyed that we'd denied a claim of yours, but I can't for this.
However, I love seeing constructive criticism, so can you give some decent (rather than unfounded "self-importance" comments) reasons why you believe it should be open, rather than just saying that it should be?
As a final point, if anyone has any questions about what has happened with a certain claim, or whatever, there's nothing saying they cannot ask a Council member how they voted, etc. It should be (and is) the Council members' own disgretion whether they want to release their voting information; similar to the old secret ballot in most elections...
- chrimigules
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Re: Declassification?
Being transparent in the way we operate isn't the same as having everyone have a vote, though.
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Re: Declassification?
Well done. It was just another hypothetical step in "opening" up the MCS; don't remember me saying that's what will happen...
- chrimigules
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Re: Declassification?
Those are two completely different things, though. You can't just compare the two to each other and say oh, well if you do one, you might as well just go and do the other.
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Re: Declassification?
They're not that different when the discussion is about ways of opening up the MCS. Anything to create more public involvement is considered "opening" up.
I was saying that if you suggest letting the public view the Council's workings, you might as well suggest letting them vote as another possibility to be looked at and discussed...
I was saying that if you suggest letting the public view the Council's workings, you might as well suggest letting them vote as another possibility to be looked at and discussed...
- dr-spangle
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- chrimigules
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Re: Declassification?
The difference between transparency and direct democracy is a lot wider than you're making it out, though.
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